Making sense of 2017 (Hint: alcohol is a must)
Making sense of 2017 (Hint: alcohol is a must)
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BRADMAN:- not another draw? Drag it out, drag it out!
another change from the days of Italian and Greek gangs is that we were not in the least squeamish about identifying who the troublemakers were, and while that no doubt annoyed and embarrassed some folks it did not seem to cause irreparable harm to the community as a whole.
the squeamishness started when Sydney had a problem with Lebanese gangs in the mid 1990s.
it was about then a mate telephoned me the day of a family barbecue and asked I could pick some additional items on the way, or as he put it, mate, can yer grab some bread of middle eastern appearance.
I saw someone here trying to excuse the violence as a consequence of mandatory detention of non-visa arrivals.
hard to know for sure but I don’t think that flies, very few Africans in that cohort, the Africans generally come straight from the camps, chosen I think by Immigration and the UNHCR.
There’s a problem but it’s not a huge one. Stats show Sudanese and Somalians account for 0.50 of population and 1.5 per cent of crime. An over representation sure but hardly a crisis. Might be little more than due to the average age of Somalians and Sudanese in Vic e.g. Mostly young not many in the 65 plus category.
not sure that it’s all about the stats.
if the reports i read are correct then it is also the nature of the crimes, violent home invasions, nasty carjackings, violent store robberies etc.
people get annoyed about burglaries, i’m still grinding my teeth after some toe-rag stole my old man’s gold watch so he could fill his arm in King’s Cross, but I imagine they are fearful of this new level of crime.
there has always been this sort of violent crime of course, but usually it was contained within the criminal world, this seems to happen more or less at random.
There’s no over-representation in agg-burgs for example. And it is just 1.5 per cent of all crimes reported in Vic. Vic now has an independent crime statistician (as does QLD now) which is a welcome measure. The worst thing that can happen (and it is happening) is a greater notoriety be associated with these young offenders. That way borderline offenders become wannabe gangsters. Seriously, on your knowledge of VicPol, do you think they will stand idly by?
well now, twenty years ago i would have said don’t be ridiculous of course they wouldn’t.
Today, not so sure.
They did stand idly by while some arsehole drove a car around terrorising and killing people in the CBD.
Vicpol also seems to have been infected by the useless social worker virus, if their public pronouncements are anything to go by, and I lost a lot of confidence in them during the Nixon years.
but it isn’t just the cops, the magistrates court, in particular the children court has re-imagined their role as one of “Therapeutic Jurisprudence’, to quote the chief judge.
They seem to think they are doctors curing illness or social workers righting wrongs.
This is amusing in it’s level of idiocy but dangerous for the public.
Very little has changed at VicPol, mate. I don’t think they stood idly by on the Bourke St incident. That’s a pretty silly thing to say. I’m not calling them efficient, now or in the past. They’ve let murderers walk in the past due to ineptitude. I can point you to a few examples if you like. The courts are trying to keep youngsters out of a cycle of offending that when it really gets underway, costs the community a great deal more. Seriously, I’m a little intrigued that so many generally intelligent people have fallen for this. Maybe I know the media too well. It’s silly season with some of the adults away from newsrooms, blaring headlines, media orgs tripping over one another. This is the sort of panic that led to the lock outs in Sydney. It won’t take long before the Andrews Govt shits itself and brings in mandatory sentences for young offenders or some other cobbled together quick fix without a moment’s thought to the long term consequences. It’s no way to do law and order, mate.
JTI
When those “youngsters” know that the courts will treat them leniently and go on to repeat offend against innocent people it is time to get a little harsher.
It’s not as if we’re stumbling around in the dark without any examples from our social history to guide us. Virtually every serious gangland crook you care to name has been subject to harsh treatment as a juvenile. Then they got some more harsh treatment as adults, emerged from prison in their early 20s, raring to go. Torture, murder, rape — you name it. Virtually no limit. Try and think of the social cost of that. If you think I’m concerned about the rights of young offendes you are wrong. I couldn’t care less. But I do care about the social cost, especially to victims. The primary objective of the juvenile justice system and for young adult offenders in general is to keep them out of prison because we know once they get there, the die is virtually cast. We can spend a lot of money in rehab programs and trying to get people in work and training post prison. Some might be effective. What we do know is when young men go to prison for two years or more, two thirds of them will reoffend and go back to prison. More often their subsequent offending is more serious, more violent and obviously increases crime rates and the associated social cost. So, if we left you have your way and you were sentencing young offenders, I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’d hand out more custodial sentences. Let’s say twice as many as are handed out now. Within ten years we would see spikes in murder rate and violent offending with thousands more victims of crime and millions in social cost. And there would still be people demanding harsher sentences for young offenders. Finally, let me pose you a question: Do you believe media in this country is invested in reducing crime, that it has a less violent, more cohesive society as one of its objectives? Bear in mind this is a group who offer the rough axiom, if it bleeds it leads. Don’t be a passive button waiting to be pushed. Apply some critical thinking to complex problems.
Some kids just do not have a chance from day one. They are born into families so dysfunctional that any chance of them leading a normal childhood is gone. Any of you here that have been blessed with children will know they are fantastic mimics. So when violence is what they are surrounded with violent they become. I have a somewhat more mercenary attitude to the incarceration of juveniles. I think we have to do everything we can to keep them out of the criminal justice system but once joined we have to cut our losses and move on. The problem with most community based interventions in Australia is that we start with these kids once they come to our notice yet as sure as night follows day I could walk you through neighbourhoods and point out 9 and 10 year old kids who are the criminals of the future. In the main we are doing nothing with these little ones other than standing around waiting for them to offend so we can then do something. We need to get ahead of the curve and in fact have recently started doing this in the Gulf of Carpenteria and Cape York. These things are not solved in election cycles they are generational.
As JTI rightly points out the media aren’t interested in generational change they are interested in the now so things will keep rolling along as they always have and we will continue to put money into those that are lost instead of the people we can save.
As one Jack said to two others, “I’m a little intrigued that so many generally intelligent people have fallen for this … Don’t be a passive button waiting to be pushed. Apply some critical thinking to complex problems.”
Well JTI, you tried. You’ve tried giving the statistics, but no, apparently it’s not the quantity but the _quality_ of the crime. You’ve tried giving more statistics showing the quality is the same, you’ve tried noting the tendency of the media to invent Laura Norder crises, and the lessons of similar issues in the past, but no, apparently it’s the soft police, the soft courts, the “identifiable” (read: black) perpetrators, or anything really that will distract from the fact that the so-called “African crime wave” is a politically-motivated tabloid beat-up of a slight statistical over-representation that is irrelevant to 98.5% of the ever-shrinking Victorian crime rate.
Thanks for trying, but I think some people prefer to be Dutton’s “buttons”, not because they’re stupid enough to believe his nonsense, but because they approve of his motive, which is the Victorian election. (Others, unfortunately, probably _are_ stupid enough…)
O’Hagan! Ripper! Great to see you back with the usual thoughtful assessment.
The cons cant help it, it’s a herd thing.
I agree JB his newly minted lawyer naivety was quite amusing.
I was just confirming Razor, I’m sure O’Hagan is only too familiar the with herd instinct of the conservatives.
my recollection is that the police tracked the perpetrator for quite some time that morning, but did not intervene, nor did the police in the CBD.
i think you are conflating two issues, what happens in the courts and how young men are treated in juvenile detention centres.
That’s what the Shadowers do. They follow people. They’ve been doing it for more than a century. Sometimes they lose them as was the case in this instance. Are you trying to tell ne they never lost one twenty years ago?
The Qld ones are the best in Australia. Some of the best in the world. That’s fact repeatedly proven over the last couple of years.
It’s a tough job. I know a senior officer in VicPol’s surveillance squad. He’s a bright bloke, former SOG. They don’t muck around.
Mau Mau next?
Climate “Change” gone mad Mr Insider as we read a massive ‘bomb cyclone’ winter storm has roared onto the US east coast, dumping as much as 45 centimetres of snow and unleashing cyclonic winds that closed schools and offices and cancelled thousands of flights. Strewth. Mr Baptiste, the worlds leading untrained expert in Climate Change, also tells us that we will be deluged in massive rain in 5 years. What is one to do pray tell.
https://tinyurl.com/y7cm6op7
You aint seen nothing yet.
And that was the weather forecast courtesy of the lovely Jean, who prefers to call it climate, whether it eventuates or not. Thanks Jean.
You are just a little confused Milton. The climate change, a consequence of AGW, is causing extreme weather events to occur with increasing intensity and regularity. With great concentration you may just be able to incorporate that into your obviously challenged consciousness.
The increment to pre industrial levels of the heat yield of three atomic bombs every two seconds, now being sequestered in our oceans is clearly beyond your imagination as such is required to understand that we are heading for oblivion. Much sooner than you think.
Sadly there is no authority to which you could respond bothering to instruct you in these matters, they simply don’t care about you. And they never did, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. They lie to you, always have for very good reasons of self interest . I’m going to feel bad for at least three seconds for telling you this, they lied about heaven too. It’s a fairy story for the kiddies, young or old. Sorry about that.
But you can take it from me and anyone else who doesn’t have their noggin up their clacker, you better start livin’ an lovin’ with whatever pallid enthusiasm ye may gather from here on in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqPqXmkWXfs
Accompanied by kind thoughts and a wistful smile.
You give credibility to a guy that says humans will be extinct in 10 years? Give me a break. That was as far as I got, about 10 seconds.
So, are you going to walk around with a sandwich board saying “The End is Nigh”?
The people need to be warned Jean!
I see you’re still pumping up Guy’s tyres JB. You on a commission or something me old mate?
All due to to cosmic rays JB 🙂
A mad right winger mate of mine, every time he hears of snow or freezing weather, like in the USA always screams (like Trump) “There ya go the earth is not warming”. These fools fails to realise global warming results in very extreme and contrasting weather events,
Mack, clearly you have no clue and don’t want one. You lasted ten seconds? That’s a rolled gold case of avoidance you have there.
Later in the evening I went back and watched it again, still not impressed. Get back to me circa 2023 or 4 for a progress report on human extinction.
Mack I suspect the fact you are not impressed means that you simply do not understand, or do not wish to understand the implications for a planet that has been hotter each year for fifteen consecutive years with no prospect whatsoever for the trend reversing itself. Or that the lag time for the full impact of CO2 emissions already pumped into our atmosphere by human activity will not be evident for many years to come. We are seeing temperature changes that in past occurred over periods of thousands of years now happening in a few decades.
I personally hope McPherson is wrong or wilfully exaggerating the situation and is desperately trying to shake the people from their apathy, but clearly this is going exponential and common sense tells me there is little hope for the stupidly complacent species.
http://www.climatesignals.org/headlines/world%E2%80%99s-oceans-are-storing-staggering-amounts-heat-%E2%80%94-and-it%E2%80%99s-even-more-we-thought
We’re either frying or freezing JB, make up your mind old mate.
You just haven’t taken anything on at all have you Carl. Do you even have a clue what brings about changes in weather? Any idea how a refrigerator works?
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/bill-mckibbens-battle-plan-for-the-planets-climate-crisis-w462680
Re the fridge JB, plug her in, turn her on and load it up with beer (mmm…or is it the other way round?).
And here you are mocking the man on the moon stuff! Anywho I will walk you through a few other fun gadgets throughout the week, Good luck with the fridge.
Mocking the man on the moon stuff. You don’t know much at all Milton.
Babes in the woods.
Buy some sandbags and lock your door Henry. Just keep strong until Jean tells us what to do next.
Just hope my “Big Kimmie Mk1” Nuclear Fallout Shelter is waterproof Milton. Service Pack 1 already installed! Cheers
“Big Kimmie Mk1 Fallout Shelter?” Crikey, aint you just putting on airs, that’s one mighty fancy name for a rabbit hole Henry!
The AGW deniers are trying to cover their embarrassment by slinging off at those who told you so.
Keep it coming, you have no idea how much we have in reserve to hit you over the head with.
Make my day.
Geez Jean I hope you haven’t sunk to being a ‘told you so type’! And if, as you suggest, it is all over red rover there is little point in raising fear levels, that will just encourage raping and pillaging. As George H once said “all things must pass” so let’s just be here now.
The God that you describe as fairy tale stuff never guaranteed an eternal earthly paradise yet you seem to have an underlying “faith” that if it wasn’t for AGW planet earth would have gone on its merry way for generations of grandchildren to enjoy (or Not). There’s a possible chance that at any time earth could be hit by an asteroid, and you a haemorrhoid, and this is good enough reason not to over invest in superannuation. Don’t get so hung up on life as you know it Jean, you’ll enjoy the present so much more.
And don’t invest in the New Year industry, to us in the “know” it’s no secret why they’re flogging hot cross buns now!!!
Christ on a pogo stick! You’re advocating that I should, we should, pretend it is not happening?
Your primitive superstitious beliefs disqualify you from being taken seriously philosophically from any other than the rest of the brainwashed compliant simpletons being led cheerfully into extinction.
“If you keep your head my son while all about you are losing theirs,
You are simply too stupid to understand the danger you are in.”
You hope I haven’t sunk to being a “told you so”! Hahahahaha, mate I’m going to “tell you so” till I get sick of it, and that isn’t going to happen.
You know me, you have a go and you’ll get something like this.
http://www.newsweek.com/hundreds-craters-methane-explosions-seafloor-arctic-norway-russia-619068
I know you are just flailing about but isn’t it lovely how you recommend a “lightening up” when that is exactly what those you are so critical of have been suggesting all the time?
You’re cute.
When I suggested the dangers of ‘The Great Methane Fart’ and the possibilities of such an eruption under the Arctic Ocean, I was laughed at. Hundreds of craters? Fooey! Wait for the big one. Bring the matches. This will be more fun than lighting farts at a nun’s picnic.
Truly bizarre to see sharks washed up frozen solid, HB.
40deg here, -40deg there.
Scary stuff
The Thresher sharks you mention go into ‘cold shock’ Boa, same with sea turtles, with over 200 so far rescued from the ocean surface where the temp is warmed a little by the sun.
There’s also been iguanas falling from trees in a state of freeze but apparently they may still ‘thaw’ when this extreme weather event ends.
Whales on the other hand are warm-blooded & well insulated (blubber) so they survive extreme cold conditions by generating their own heat to maintain a core body temp similar to ours.
BTW Boadicea, thanks for those kind words you wrote about me. To be honest, kindness is always possible, no matter how different our beliefs. 💚
I respect your commitment greatly Bella – and when it comes to our environment I am with you 100%.
At the moment I am stressing out about the over- touristing happening here – beautiful wild places converted into easy access for tourists – and private enterprise being given permission to build exclusive resorts in prustine wilderness areas – that no ordinary mortals could afford to stay in.
The proposed development in Recherche Bay is particularly upsetting. Two storey things on pontoons in the middle of paradise – which is still pretty much as the French explorers found it. Is nothing to be spared in the quest for the tourist dollar?
I just shake my head when a pristine wilderness in all it’s natural beauty suddenly becomes ‘accomodation’ for the wealthy, yet to draw them in they will still call it ‘wilderness’.
It’s not that anymore now some rich developer has thrown money at your greedy state ‘leaders’.
So no, nothing will be spared when there’s $$$ to be made, no matter how beautiful a treasure it is.
“Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.”
Edward Abbey
I’m just happy I have seen so many of the gorgeous parts here, Bella – before the helicopters and high powered boats/vans/campers are absolutely everywhere.
I believe the car parking area at the once serene Fortescue Bay (end of the 3 Capes Track) was jam-packed the other day. Needed a can opener to get in or out. The scenery is stunning but I won’t walk the 3 Capes “garden paths” any more.
Choppers buzzing around “improving” tracks on Mt Wellington these days. Not long before one can walk that in thongs too. Port Davey next? Bloody hell. Okay got that off my shoulders!!
We disagree on many things Bella but I’m with Boa you are one of the good guys on here. This world would be crap without people like you.
Aww Razor that’s so sweet.
Muchas Gracias 🐬
And Bella’s loved me for years!! It’s only her taste in music that cooled our relationship….
And agree, Bella disagrees and argues in an exemplary fashion.
I am certainly old enough to remember the Vietnamese and Lebanese gangs, and just old enough to recall some of the problems with Italian crime making it’s way to Australia.
I don’t remember violent home invasions, or jewellery stores being trashed by young people carrying choppers and baseball bats, nor were carjackings a thing, at least not until the Leb gangs in Sydney got into the car re-birthing business.
But then, in those days the cops did not tread so gently, and the courts did not attempt to solve the social problems of the world through “therapeutic jurisprudence”.
It’s the open brazenness of these crime sprees – not under cover stuff –
in broad daylight, in the middle of Melbourne and seemingly with contempt and utter disregard for their victims that is unnerving, jack. By the time the police arrive they have gone. Leaving behind shattered people and premises.
It’s frightening and unacceptable behaviour – and because they are under 18 they get off with a rap over the knuckles – and are back within days. Bail conditions are meaningless.
It’s new to Melbourne, the world’s most liveable city.
Sounds like just about any crime against the person, Boa. You think it’s worse when the offender is African?
No Jack. I have said here somewhere that it could’be skinheads, anyone. It’s the open brazenness. violence and utter contempt of it that is frightening people, understandably –
and is something that has not been experienced on the streets of Melbourne in such a sustained way until now. It can have a lifelong negative effect on their innocent victims. That seems to be spurring them on.
The fact that these kids are Sudanese has added a racial edge to it all. One only has to read comments otw to find that out.
These kids have come from an extremely violent world where life is cheap and there is no such thing as welfare. Their parents or surviving relatives have given up everything to get them here.. The one kid I read about has an assigned case worker trying to help him and keep him out if prison. He made 8 of the 15 appointments arranged and ignored his bail conditions . He was once an achiever at achool so he understands the choices he has. He can swim or he can sink. There comes a time when only he can decide between orison or coming good. Believe it or not I think that is an empathetic opinion.
It’s a problem and it needs action.
I have said enough on this issue.
I think you’ll find the individual you mention is currently in custody for breaching bail conditions e.g. using a mobile phone.
I believe so Jack. It may seem trivial but I guess the magistrate was of the opinion that these kids communicate and congregate via smartphones and was maybe trying to find some way of keeping the kid out of trouble.
Yes he’s in custody. He had a choice not to be.
And was under surveillance by VicPol who were pretty annoyed he did get bail. That’s how he got caught breaching bail conditions.
“therapeutic jurisprudence”
Now that is a truly Orwellian term, somewhat reminiscent of Soviet mental hospitals. Or perhaps more Daniel Patrick Moynahan’s “defining deviancy down”.
Croatian gangs?
I am sure Lloyd and that Swedish guy abbott gave millions to will try and refute the science as usual.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/oceans-coral-bleaching-getting-worse/news-story/4e2ee051ddf768c53208215fc10c43fc
The Swedish guy actually talks a lot of sense Dismayed. Lloyd I’m not so sure about. Under orders I presume.
Lomborg? Danish.
Scandi then. Dismayed said it, not me.
potato head Dutton again proving he is not fit to represent this Nation. He must be the thin skinned type of potato. Dutton is an embarrassment. No surprises.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/national-security/judge-lex-lasry-dines-out-on-peter-dutton-gang-anxiety/news-story/c9c60b065fde9572e782671eb3c57b2b
Pull yer head in Dismayed, quoting the bloody Australian!
woops – Hahahahahaha…..
James Fallows:
They know. They could act. And they don’t.
Sounds familiar.
5th of January and already the season of goodwill has evaporated into the ether.
Season of goodwill? Nobody told me.
Think it evaporated when hot cross buns hit the supermarket shelves
Noticed Coles on Thursday had them, at least no Easter eggs although some shelves were ominously empty where they normally go
Nah, it’s an exercise in practicality Tracy. The buns get a run because they can sit on the shelf or on the bench at home right now. I laugh when the Supermarketers say it is demand driven, then park the display at the front entrance so you can’t miss it.
The chockies need some respite from the summer heat, so they are a couple of months away. Don’t worry, they will fill every aisle, checkout and display stand soon enough. Positioning will be calculated to be within the reach of ages four and above.
Touche, MtK!
Quite right Tracy and it seems that making snide remarks in the direction of Boa is all the rage with the yr 11 girls. It’s bloody nasty and imho undeserved.
Think it’s just getting tiresome in general Milt, used to be fun.
Popping in less and less and usually only a footy tipping reminder for those that don’t check their email.
That said, stick your hand in your pockets for the pink test folks.
Your humble opinion? Humble is just too kind Milton. High self esteem is admirable to a point but…….
honest opinion, Jean
Oh dear, I had harboured a hope that most of your opinions expressed here were not your honest opinion. Oh, dearie dearie me.
We rushed in and. Ow welcome to the rave new world!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/big-energy-users-act-to-save-the-grid-from-blackouts-over-summer/news-story/0b422fc11eb362a32384bf2ef5bb5c9b