I used to consider myself an atheist. Now, when asked, I say I am agnostic. It is not that I have doubts but I don’t want to be bundled in with the atheist crowd.
In answering such a question, it is too difficult to explain the distinction between atheism and anti-religionism and to be honest, the lines are often blurred.
Is it any wonder?
This Easter we have been witness to baffling brawls over halal chocolate Easter eggs and squabbling over whether or not a footy match should be played on Good Friday. I adopt the laissez-faire approach in these matters but I find it troubling that those who advocate sombre reflection on religious holidays are cast as extremists.
Religion is often mocked by atheists. Mockery is fine in some instances but when people are painted as sub-human for holding supernatural beliefs, items of faith in all organised religions, it is clear there is an attempt to wantonly discriminate against people and limit their movements and their associations.
Full column here.
A good friend of mine has Prostate Cancer, Mr Insider, and it doesn’t look too good for him sadly. Here’s some info from the Prostate Cancer Foundation of Australia and a helpful read for all us men imho. Hope you are on top of your battle with Cancer, Mr Insider?
http://tinyurl.com/jxsfdfj
It’s a byproduct of getting old. Had a mate pass two weeks ago. Our last conversation was a good one, for which I’m grateful. We both knew it might be our last. On Sunday I had a couple of beers with a friend I made when I first moved here. He won’t make Christmas. No one gets out alive. Make moments count.
Spot on Dwight make moments count for sure as we are not promised tomorrow. Sad though to see a formerly fit healthy man reduced to a wreck.
A little bit of Christmas everyday Dwight.
And one for all the males here; I was on a fishing trip with a Doctor last year who was adamant that the PSA blood test wasn’t enough as it could fail. He advised the old fashioned method of detecting prostrate cancer was the only sure fire way……So on your sides boys and grin and bear it!
Women put up with PAP smears, having babies in front of a cast of thousands, quite resignedly. Men should not have a problem with the digital prostate examination. It’s a life saver.
If men had to have babies Bo, there’s a good chance there wouldn’t be any.
Our first was born in Royal Hobart hospital, and just when things got interesting (they used those horrible stirrups back then) a tour of interns rocked in for a gawk. My wife was beyond caring, but it didn’t do much for me.
The wailing from the Italian family in the next delivery room, yes the whole family was there, rounded off the experience.
I always said Lou, after going through childbirth I had no pride left!!! However when the chips are down at that stage one couldn’t care less who’s peering at your privates!
Men have absolutely no idea what it’s like. You’re right, they couldn’t hack it.
Nothing worse than enduring manflu – let’s not go there!
i certainly get that for lots of people the absence of empirical evidence leads them to a conclusion that there is no god, that’s a reasonable point of view.
it’s when that opinion spills over into a conviction that those who do believe in a god in the absence of empirical evidence must be fools or knaves that they lose me.
there are no shortage of very intelligent and learned believers,and there have been many more down the years. they understand that they can’t prove god exists but choose to believe, or have the gift of faith as they sometimes put it.
it is the failure to understand this last point, the importance to many of spirituality and faith, that makes the sneering derision of a Peter Fitzsimmons so pathetic.
an old mate used to explain it this way, it’s the difference between faith and knowledge. You know your mother is your mother, but you believe your father is your father.
of course, that was in the days before DNA testing.
i am a Marist Brothers product myself, and my experience was that there was a mix of great men and some toxic bastards, as you would expect in most such organisations. i quite enjoyed it at the time, got to play lots of sport and hang out with a bunch of mates, and as it was a boarding school, to meet people from different places, to open up the world a bit. i certainly understood even then that it was not such a good experience for everyone.
i suppose i would still say i am catholic, at a pinch. i am a very occasional attendee at Mass for instance but i wouldn’t hold myself or my history out as an exemplar of catholic morality, far from it.
People don’t have to respect other’s beliefs, but whatever happened to common courtesy? If people want to believe in economic theories that can’t work, or conspiracies by the dozen, I don’t have to be in their face calling them idiots. But, some people just can’t help themselves. If you express a belief in the numinous some feel they have the right to call you names. It says much more about their own fragile self-esteem than it does the object of their derision.
You meet people from time to time who justify their lack of consideration for others as “just calling it like I see it.” My rejoinder would not be printable here.
What exactly was it that Fitzsimmons said that was so pathetic? If the religious have a problem with what he has been saying, then they should challenge him and debate him on each point if they consider they are misrepresented.
There are plenty of forums where they counter his views and put their case if they are up for it.
It’ s about time the haughty religious organisations with their superior “faith” and “we know but you don’t” nonsense were confronted robustly.
I wouldn’t have any problem with religious orders, because they would wither on the vine, if they did not indoctrinate children, rob them of imagination and curiosity and personal power, shifting all focus to an invented tool of authority.
In my view this practice is a revolting violation of human rights. Even if a child’s mind is not fully captured by this practice at the very least doubts and guilt will stay with them at some level all their lives. And by “god” religions
are responsible for angst and mental agony n a monumental scale.
They’ve been protected by social constructs of their own devising for far too long.
Religions are industries, they should be subject to the Trade Practices Act advertising standards. Prove there is a god or stop insisting to children that there is one.
Cheers!
“And by “god” religions are responsible for angst and mental agony n a monumental scale.
They’ve been protected by social constructs of their own devising for far too long.”
Straight out of your Karl Marx playbook JB?
You would no doubt also claim that the ruling classes use religion to give false hope and comfort to the “poor” to strengthen and maintain their power. Even send them to war. Better to keep praying than revolting, eh.
But you never seem to offer (even for the purpose of balance) a negative view on the “angst and agony on a monumental scale” on the toll of proselytisation of Marxism. The most conservative reports put it at well over 100 million lives over half a century.
I think it dwarfs the criticism of the effects of the fanatical religion you rail on about me old mate.
You know what they say about power Carl
You’re off on a tangent again. You don’t even attempt to address the quotation you single out.
But what the heck, I’ll play your silly game.
OK Lets see that ” most conservative” report.
You may or may not consider this.
http://www.petersaysstuff.com/2014/05/attempting-the-impossible-calculating-capitalisms-death-toll/
And cogitate on this old codger.
http://www.fearof.net/fear-of-the-lord-or-god-phobia-theophobia/
and this
http://www.mutualresponsibility.org/science/the-world-weve-made-every-5-seconds-a-child-dies-from-malnutrition-and-hunger
“You’re off on a tangent again. You don’t even attempt to address the quotation you single out.”
Well ….., I would be addressing it if you concede that “Marxism” is a religion.
And how many children die from malutrition and hunger in your beloved “Kimmy’s godforsaken joint. That’s the DPRK that you regularly “joke” about and play your “silly games” and which appears, sadly, to be an obvious source for your personal giggles me old mate.
You are turning into a tedious harping old man Carl.
Any child dying from an avoidable cause is a failure of us all.
I don’t have any reliable figures, but I can assure you the number is a fraction of the holocaust of child deaths each and every year.
If you put conditions on contemplating such things then you are in a sad place.
A thoughtful article, JTI, and one that got me thinking about my own relationship to religion. I mean, I even sang in a cathedral choir (Anglican) at one point and survived unmolested. Went agnostic, returned in my 30s – even attending 7 am communion on a Friday (and how many Anglicans do that, I ask you) and being on the church council. Then left forever and I know I will never return. I loved the sense of ritual, the theatre if you like, and some of the morality. The thing is, I just didn’t believe. I will never be an atheist because, in a perverse way, it is close to being a religion itself. It almost has its own creed and principles of non-belief. No, agnosticism will do me fine because I simply don’t care. In the unlikely event that there is a God, I am convinced that (s)he or it is entirely indifferent to humanity.
Yes, religion can beat the state. Sometimes that can be for the better, with the downfall of communism in Poland being an excellent example. Sometimes it can be for the worse, and in a way, the dreadful revelations that you have helped to expose in Victoria are an example of religion defeating the organs of the state. But worst of all are when the two combine, as in Iran where a genuine thirst for freedom and reform are suppressed, or North Korea which is probably the only contemporary state with a God-king.
But I am not so sure about respecting the religious beliefs of others. I don’t respect bizarre political beliefs, why should I respect bizarre religious beliefs?. The only reason i can think of is that there is a tendency for some people to become violent if you don’t respect their beliefs. And we can be too respectful, to our own cost. How else to explain that the new Royal Adelaide Hospital has a Muslim prayer room and washing facility for 2% of the population and a shared space for all other believers, be they Hindu, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Sikh, Mormon, Zoroastrian, Animist, Shinto, Jain, Druid, Baha’i, Pantheist, and any others you can think of?
So, I have long ago fare-welled religion and, while I will not be overtly rude to believers, I am not inclined to respect their beliefs either.
Jack buddy any chance of a lend of $100 till centrelink opens tomorrow. Had a bastard of a run at Randwick on Saturday, me rents due, me missus left me, me cars repossessed, the bookies are after me and that’s only the good bits. I will rip down to Star casino, double it and pay ya straight back buddy what do ya say for old times sake?
Drop it on red, Cedric.
Standards have certainly dropped on this blog, down and out gamblers / losers asking for loans , someone asking what they should do in the event of a nuclear blast , people still talking about Collingwood, God will that ever stop , an infestation of religious nuts , redneck Trump lovers , will it ever return to the way it was normal and serious …
Looks like you have returned to the blog as “Moderator” Bill. Come on old girl lighten up, don’t take yourself so serious, no one else is am sure. Cheers.
I will join U. I will be at C.Link tomorrow to fight the Robot. I won the 1st Administrative Appeals Tribunal but they will not accept the umpires decision and have appealed against our win!! Talk about smashing a mouse with a sledgehammer. Fighting my wife and I has cost the taxpayer MORE than what they are trying to screw us for. MUCH MORE.
Right behind you BASSY. Nils carborundum imperium illegitimi.
Jesus, Mary & Joseph Bassman, maybe JOH, yourself and I should form a Marist Bros Unappreciation Society based on undeserved thrashings we copped at school. I found the likes of myself and a couple of others in my school who dared to question the teachings of the Church of Rome were subjected to thrashings for minor infringements more than the other students. One Brother who couldn’t control his facial expressions used to roll his eyes whenever I put my hand up for a question, much to my amusement. Got sent to the Principal’s office one day for questioning the Pope’s infallibility when addressing the Church as a whole. When he asked me why I was there I told him I was feeling sick and needed to go home, which he let me do. Sitting outside his office for 30 minutes or so contemplating six of the best was enough to make anyone feel ill.
I was kicked out of Religion so many times I lost count…especially for questioning the virgin birth, angels with wings, the transubstantiation. I argued virgin birth was physically impossible and was told ‘faith always transcends doubt’. I argued faith meant ‘leaving your brains and reason outside the classroom door’. I guess I deserved what I got but I was always polite. Usually called a ‘heathen’ by the Micks. I finally worked out why I was dumb at skool…they marked me down. Once I got to Uni with anonymity I scored highly. They needed me though in other areas. I was tops at inter-school sports!
Carmen was very good last night and it was a warm, windless night.
Hopefully the sound carried over to Alan Jones apartment to piss him and his fellow apartment dwellers off, more American tourists around last night than I’d seen in awhile, good exchange rate for them.
Carmen? Fabulous Phil Carmen? retired years ago. What a player though. Did have a bit of a temper though. Ahh Fabulous Phil those were the days.
Not a bad mezzo too, but the high heels and flamenco dress got people talking.
What a fabulous job POTUS Trump is doing on all fronts, Mr Insider. On the home front its ‘jobs, jobs and more jobs” and Internationally he is cementing good relationships with many countries whilst putting others on notice to ‘pull up their socks” e.g. Russia! Liking what I see, Mr Insider, a totally fresh new approach that is working well imho. P.S. if only our own PM Milton Trumble would pull his finger out an ddo something constructive b4 ex ousted PM Abbott nails him!
Ok, you’re having a lend of us right , I’ve read some shit in my life but that comment takes the (chocolate) cake, an absolutely delusional person without doubt…
G’day Bill haven’t seen you around on the blog for years. You were driving Taxis up in Brisbane last time I saw you on here? Hope all is well and you have had a good Easter as we. Look as far as POTUS Trump is concerned you like him or you don’t, no skin off my nose, but the majority of Americans do like him as have many friends in the USA. He’s bloody different I will give you that! Cheers and hope you are keeping well as me.
The majority of Americans do like him? Don’t be too sure about that Noss.
The majority of Americans that voted, voted for Hilary. About 2.5 million more votes I think it was.
All in the wrong places
I say Bill, that’s the old Nossy you’re quite understandably having a crack at. You may not be aware that he sold his boat, bull-shitted his way through a few bodgy aliases on here, claimed to have backed Trump to win a motza during the POTUS primaries, travelled to the US, got cold feet and took a saver on Hillary, did his dough and has not stopped rabbiting on about Trump ever since. I doubt he’s ever been south of the Gold Coast mate.
LOL what a “handbag swing” dear Carl, had a bad Easter old buddy. $103k my win to be exact and I did lay off on Hillary late in the betting when she blew out, just in case. Love the punt Carl as you well know. What odds on Tony making a comeback? Ahhhhh life, fabulous one moment, stupendous the next. Cheers old buddy hope 2017 going well for you as me.
What happened to Alastair?
And Carl , he seems to have that annoying habit of wishing people well at the end of his comments… Grrrrrrrr. Damn irritating….
The last post led me to digging a bit deeper. You never know where you’ll find a gem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5qyTY1fS9c
No apologies from me for disrespecting the beliefs of the religious. Respect is earned, if they deserve respect for certain actions, they shall have it.
But I would no more respect the belief held by parent or church that they have the right to indoctrinate children and even terrorise them than I would respect a belief in the right to thrash or otherwise abuse them.
Contemplating falling in with the flock, and what a bloody fine sunbeam I would be, does anyone know what God or Allah was up to prior to the creation of heaven and Earth and everything? Did they just materialise out of nothing, one assumes at some point in the past, or had they just always been there, custodians or owners of paradise mulling over how they might attract tenants? Then, bingo! I’ll make some!
As much as we are inadequate in contemplating eternity and the universe, we might if our brains had evolved over a period longer than no more than a second in geological time, just try imagining nobody, nothing, not an atom, anywhere, ever. An empty void going on for ever with not a mind ever existing to think about it.
Bless you my misguided child may the loving hand of the Lord heal and comfort you and save you from the burning fires of hell and damnation.
The Lord is hiding out in our granny flat Reverend. Satan got an army of disappointed Christians up and they sacked Heaven, took over and ran God outa town. Theres a lot of things the press is keeping from you.
Now, while you’re down there…………
JB – you keep torturing yourself like that and you’ll do your head in.
Just try to remember that Emily Dickenson said that “forever” is simply composed of a whole bunch of “nows”.
Hope that helps me old mate.
But only a weensy number of your own personal “nows” if you don’t get your scrawny arse down to the confessional Carl.
An appropriate little ditty from Kinky Friedman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ZMj5RksbE