I used to consider myself an atheist. Now, when asked, I say I am agnostic. It is not that I have doubts but I don’t want to be bundled in with the atheist crowd.
In answering such a question, it is too difficult to explain the distinction between atheism and anti-religionism and to be honest, the lines are often blurred.
Is it any wonder?
This Easter we have been witness to baffling brawls over halal chocolate Easter eggs and squabbling over whether or not a footy match should be played on Good Friday. I adopt the laissez-faire approach in these matters but I find it troubling that those who advocate sombre reflection on religious holidays are cast as extremists.
Religion is often mocked by atheists. Mockery is fine in some instances but when people are painted as sub-human for holding supernatural beliefs, items of faith in all organised religions, it is clear there is an attempt to wantonly discriminate against people and limit their movements and their associations.
Full column here.
Good call Jack. In this age an atheist is an activist ready to beat the crap out of any person associating as “religious”, while an agnostic can at least live and let live.
I am still of the belief that true religion starts with the maxim, treat others as I would want they treat me, simple to execute at any level. Sadly there are sufficient crazies out there, using the excuse of religion or drugs or any excuse, to require another response which is a bit of stiff resistance.
BTW, Schapelle Corby is exiting Bali with great regret, and no boyfriend, asking when can she come back. Now that is a religious experience.
Nothing wrong with atheism but as you say, Lou, too often it veers into militant atheism and anti-religionism.
As an athiest, I just don’t believe there’s a god but if you believe there is a god, that’s fine. How does my existence make me “an activist ready to beat the crap out of any person associating as religious”?
That’s quite a stretch LoT.
I’m employed by a charitable organisation very strong on religious belief & charity for the disadvantaged. On my final interview I felt it was fair to impart my non-association with any religion but thankfully their selection criteria rated compassion, fairness & kindness far higher than my non-attendance at any place of worship.
Four years on, I get ‘Bless You’ or ‘Amen’ all the time & I respect their faith, just as they respect my choices and my reasons.
It does go both ways & I promise to reconsider my spirituality if the day ever comes when those unfeeling men at the Vatican palace decide to throw open the golden vault & trade their stored riches for humanity. For mine, surely feeding and providing shelter for the millions of poverty stricken human beings dying from starvation should be right up there in the eyes of their god, before indulging in gilded artworks and expensive costumes made with the finest lace.
Regards, Bella
I posted this on the last blog very timely.
“We’d turned a religion based on following the ultimately selfless One into an institution that validated selfishness as “blessing” and used any power it possessed to maintain its cultural and political ascendancy. Now, as in Jesus’ time, the political and religious elite collude to maintain the structural and economic inequalities that are of benefit to them. ”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/14/jesus-was-on-the-side-of-the-poor-and-exploited-christian-politicians-should-remember-that
Well, to a point minister! Like Buddhists , Islam and a thousand variations Christianity has a cleverly crafted “come in sucker” allure. Whether the foundation members of these successful cults had any inclination or desire to create anything other than a special form of taxation and meek subservient crowds is a dubious contention.
The church selects from the gospel what suits it, but some parts of the gospel seem to be catering to the upper and above middle classes, including instructions for instance to give your good servants a light thrashing to keep them that way and to beat the living daylights out of the tardy ones.
The original loving non violent message only applied to affiliated peoples, everyone else , the swine, was fair game .
Did Jesus ever exist? Probably not. But it’s a bloody good idea for getting people to be humble, build you a bloody great castle, die defending you, your family and fellow power brokers, die and kill for your violent acquisitions. All of which required a mindless acceptance of whatever was dished up, achieved in a form of eugenics, weeding out the unbelievers and questioning minds from the gene pool, in some especially nasty methods of despatch.
Which adequately explains how simple minded and accepting of patent bullshit most of the population is today.
Basically the church is a police force, for the gangsters. Arguably giving the comfort to the plebs that wouldn’t be needed if they didn’t exist.
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
Give ’em heaps.
You do have a problem JB. Seems as though you’ve lost two bob and found sixpence.
You’ve never tried slipping a few tap washers onto the plate and taking some change me old mate?
That’s how you get your beer money. OK I can see the attraction now.
Good thought provoking read, Mr Insider. I think Christianity is tainted by many very failed human beings of the like we have seen in recent times at the Royal Commission, however if it were correctly adhered to, as say via the message in the Bible, there technically should be no problems. If the Road Traffic Handbook says we must do 60kph in a 60 zone and we do 80kph surely it is we who break that law that is in the wrong not the “handbook” imho. Trust you are enjoying some Hot Easter Buns as we.
This week Politics and Religion what next Sport? Is that the next unholy trinity?
Well you’re an expert on all such subjects so what’s the problem? Doug Promise? You must be kidding. Sounds like your footy career mirrored your failed effort on the cricket field.
Why not pull your head in and stop making gratuitous, uninformed comment on every bloody subject that amply demonstrates your limitations. Your references ain’t exactly substantial.
Happy Easter, I’m sure you’ll be surrounded in eggs, decorated or just broken.
Misery guts!
LoTd . I am glad to see you have finally seen the light. Which problem are you referring to by the way. I generally need a little more information than you have provided to formulate an improvement plan. You obviously know nothing of the SANFL or the people that ran the clubs long term. Oh and it was interesting to listen to several AFL commentators who have played many many games between them say the Blues have some good young kids but are 3 or 4 players away from being up there with the top clubs. Not to mention that the clubs that have continued success have less turnover of personnel as I did say previously it is a self evident point. As usual your need to have a go at me just makes you look ridiculous. Did you have a point or are you just angry at being irrelevant.
I’ve just caught up on the last couple of days of this blog. I am however fairly bemused by the fact that when a stoush happened between JTI and Dismayed, you all rub your hands with glee and jump in boots and all.
Is it a male bonding thing, that if you all gang up on some one at the same time, it makes you feel better and part of a special club?
I know you all wish he would go away, but personally I think he’s got guts to keep on coming back to the blog.
What’s this male bonding stuff Penny? I was calling out some of his outlandish rubbish before JTI rightly put him in his place. Let’s not go the feministas line.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but there’s a time to say enough. Dismayed puts his rubbish out there, then goes the nasties when challenged. Boring as bat shit. He swamps this blog with agro nonsense. FOS.
There’s no guts in firing from anonymity.
That “right on” was for Penny.
“Theres no guts in firing from anonymity.”
I’ve got a feeling in my guts Lou that it wouldn’t be a real bright idea to call Dismayed out into the paddock for a reckoning.
If you think you have a case for “enough” from Dismayed you might be better advised to take it up with the moderator and instruct him on the limits of your patience.
Or just not read Dismayed’s posts, which give me great pleasure and I look forward to them. Not always for the most noble of reasons because I find some of the reactions most entertaining.
Now try and relax. A cuppa and The Mormon Tabernacle Choir should do it. In lieu, a couple of Moggies will suffice.
Cheer up.
Right on!
I do too Penny. I actually love reading everyones contributions on this blog & I’m always learning something interesting (except cricket, cricket=serepax for me) (sorry JTI ignore that) and a couple of posters here are naturally so hilarious that I’m quite often in stitches, but this whole vendetta thing does get old.
The trick is to build a bridge & move forward.
Welcome back to Oz Penny.
Regards, Bella
Because he’s an unctuous, foolish zealot Penny. Brings it on himself.
A few have left this blog because it sometimes seems to degenerate into a list of Dismayed’s url links or cut and pastes and pompous opinions, one after the other. Boring. No point in opening them, or debating them, unless you feel like being abused or ridiculed. Life’s too short for that crap.
Wouldn’t it be nice if url links and pasted articles were banned from the blog and bloggers had to discuss their own views on current affairs. Which I would have thought was the purpose of this blog .
Are you sure you know what unctuous means?
You may get a decidedly ununctuous reply to that one Boady.
Y’all carry on claiming to be champions of free speech and then whinge about it if opinions don’t fit your ideology. Dismayed copped a serve here for cracking a funny! What would Jesus say?
Oh, hang on, you’re due for a dummy spit. Excuse me!
Here ya go, chill, life is beautiful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikIOOpjyF00
Betcha glad inks aren’t banned now eh?
Don’t bother dummyspitting anymore JB. Not interested.
Rousing anthem indeed. Do you start your day with it?
I think you meant rambunctious, you are still obsessed with me. You got No chance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6keFMASopdg
No, a sentimental bastard I start the day with……………….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3eSNi__4w
Then Goethe.
Ah that’s better,JB. Although the lyrics to the Marseillaise are pretty bloodthirsty.. But I’ll listen to Piaf anytime.
Will be in Paris soon – en route to Spain where I will be dropping in on real pilgrims on the Camino – in between some good food and wine! 🙂
Real pilgrims my arse. 74% of them are there for the nooky. 12% are too old for the nooky. 4% have absolutely no idea what they are doing there. 10% are there for religious reasons.
Count the confessionals!
These incredibly lucrative rootathons have made biblical amounts of lucre for the church over the centuries.
Bon voyage!
Nice cut Dismayed – don’t mind a bit of Fogarty
Yep, inclined to agree, JB. Happening here as we speak in Tassie. We’ve been discovered, and beautiful wild bushtracks are being converted into wheelchair access type highways. Sad. Development destroys what people came to enjoy. Fortunately down here we have enough choice to leave those now commercialised tracks to the tourists and go elsewhere.
However I am looking forward to seeing that region of Spain and taking in some of the culture, food and wine on offer. Don’t envisage crawling up mountains on my knees though.
Ummmm? Okaaaaay.
You’re naughty JB!
Moi? Wait till you’re on the Camino. You’ll see “naughties” on a biblical scale.
My man is staying at home – so there’ll be no naughties. So I’m not one of the 74, 12, 4 or 10%. So best deduct 1% from the 74% (for the man staying at home), and make that 1% for those heathens just having a good time sightseeing, eating and drinking vino
I said “You’ll see”, not “you’ll have.” Pay attention. Crikey Moses, as if, it’s bloody competitive on the Camino.
Dr Penny it is called “Group think”. I find it odd that those that supposedly espouse free speech don’t like it when a view that does not support their already held bias is challenged. One of the subjects of this blog actually. JTI has been good enough to put up with me and put me up pretty much since the inception of the blog. We see people here talking about exchange of ideas and not reading attachments, they don’t want to consider or even learn because that would require some self introspection and holding ones self accountable. We see again and again from the cons if you have the audacity to respond in kind to their abuse you are the aggressor this is the typical victim mentality of the con. It has been ever present on this blog. We even see some calling for “Bans” this is their answer to pretty much anything they don’t like or agree with. They even believe I have some magical power much like their deities apparently to influence peoples own choices. Ha if only hey? On Group think Hopkins writes some interesting information mainly around organisational and behavioural aspects from incidents but it is possible to use the same sort of understanding in more day to day things. As the learned JB would say Give em heaps.
HA! That’s pretty good.
Uncalled for comment given the context of Jack’s excellent publication with that title.
Nice column Jack. These days I find atheists to be as presumptuous and aggressively militant in their ‘beliefs’ as the most hardened zealots. Despite my distaste for organised religion I recognise how important faith is to so many people, and I don’t applaud the demonisation of people for their beliefs.
For myself, I find kinship in the words of Frank Loyd Wright, “I believe in God, only I spell it nature”.
Enough of maudlin religious talk. It’s off to Taiwan tomorrow, where admittedly – the in-laws will take (drag) me on a temple trip across the country to eight different Daoist temples, but solace will be found in the $30 bottle of Laphroaig quarter cask accompanying me each step of the way.
I divide Christians into three groups, 1-2% are genuine embracing Jesus’ teachings in every way, charitable, compassionate, giving non judgemental. You probably wouldn’t recognise them as Christians because they don’t go round advertising the fact. The remainder being what I call “rules” believers; follow the rules make others follow the rules and that is all you need to do. They are the most obvious because they are constantly telling you that they are Christians. The best example are the fundamentalists and cradle Catholics. A big subgroup of the “rules” faction are the psychologically inadequate, those who cannot function without being an a strict framework where every decision is made for you, your average holy roller or sect member.
If Christians are concerned about the lack of support for their faith nowadays they should just look at who are the most public face of their religion…
JTI,
Thank you and well done, for a most appropriate Epistle.
I will need to leave it to the members of your Congregation to debate the pros & cons.
At ‘sparrows’ we head for the Winter White-House to check that the land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, still stands in all its Glory & Diversity!!
I wish you all, Believers True & Otherwise a Happy & Holy Easter.
Vaya con Dios!
Say hello to my homeland.
Listened to St. Matthew’s Passion this morning, Jack. Good start to Good Friday.
I listened to three hundred four-wheel drives and a swarm of trail bikes roaring into town, intent on raising as much dust and noise and mayhem as they can over the next three days.
The weekend has been renamed, ‘The Festival of Zombie Jesus’.
Sounds like a good excuse to indulge in some aged Scottish holy water. Single malt.
I’m still hardening up the liver from my dry spell. The return to ethanol-based entertainment gets more traumatic every year.
“The Festival of Zombie Jesus”
I like it TBLS.
Is there anything worse than an invasion of rev-heads around your little patch of peace?
If there is I can’t think it.
White noise & chocolate works for me.
Bella
While I accept people have a right to do it, I don’t really understand it. Why people trying to escape the crowds and traffic of the cities do so by travelling in convoys by the hundreds to recreate mini-suburbs in our campgrounds totally eludes me. I pretty much go to ground at this time of year, with the exception of having to work to feed the ravening hordes.
It was Good Friday ten years ago that we stood up the wall frames on the house. I was supposed to do the under-floor insulation back around 2008 but just got around to starting it yesterday. Who said things move slow in the bush?
Pictures of Hot Cross buns and then you don’t give out the recipe? What sort of cooking show are you running? That is a special type of cruelty.
I’m not much on history, but surely there have been regimes that imposed a State religion, (Rome under the Caesars, DPRK?) and once the State crumbled, folks resorted to whatever they believed in beforehand. With the census results just out, it would be interesting to see what proportion of the population adhere to a religion and worship regularly. I’m sure it wouldn’t be anywhere near the numbers of heathens.
G Wizz, I recently spent 6 months working on the census, including the section that includes religion. I’m not allowed to say anything specific, but you would be amazed the number of breeds of faith that are actually listed in the indexes. More shades of Pentecostal than some religions have adherents. There’s a lot of silly stuff too (spaghetti monster, Jedi of many types etc). I suspect that you’re right, the non-believer rump is growing but that leaves an awful lot of adherents. And I also think that it could be shown that the migrant population are heavily weighted to the believers, and not just muslims.
Personally, I connect the reduction in faith with the spread of education, where people are more likely to think for themselves than they used to be. Once you stop trying to shoehorn ancient tribal superstitions and legends into a modern context, it all falls away. Or so I *believe*.
Not a whiff of smoked cod in sight, we’re having quesadillas for dinner tonight and our little family tradition of Life of Brian.
Dead as a door nail round here, I expect some are having withdrawal symptoms with the shops being shut for a whole day, will be overdosing on chocolate Sunday no idea if it’s halal or not and then heading out to see the opera on the harbour in the evening.
Happy Easter everyone.
Happy Easter, Tracy. Enjoy your godless quesadilas.
I think Mexican is the perfect way to celebrate xe’sus. (Je’sus?)