I used to consider myself an atheist. Now, when asked, I say I am agnostic. It is not that I have doubts but I don’t want to be bundled in with the atheist crowd.
In answering such a question, it is too difficult to explain the distinction between atheism and anti-religionism and to be honest, the lines are often blurred.
Is it any wonder?
This Easter we have been witness to baffling brawls over halal chocolate Easter eggs and squabbling over whether or not a footy match should be played on Good Friday. I adopt the laissez-faire approach in these matters but I find it troubling that those who advocate sombre reflection on religious holidays are cast as extremists.
Religion is often mocked by atheists. Mockery is fine in some instances but when people are painted as sub-human for holding supernatural beliefs, items of faith in all organised religions, it is clear there is an attempt to wantonly discriminate against people and limit their movements and their associations.
Full column here.
As a fellow atheist, I agree, Jack; although it’s odd how some of my fellow commenters have missed your distinction between atheism, the philosophical position, and anti-religionism, the political campaign. You made the point clearly and early, so it must be a result of reading with one eye shut!
I must confess that as a young hothead I was occasionally guilty of unnecessarily offending the religious sensitivities of others, probably as a misplaced reaction against my oppressive school experience at the hands of the Marist Brothers. I’m not proud of having done that, but again, I’m astonished by the versatility of some of my fellow commenters on the very issue of causing religious offence, depending on which religion we’re talking about.
These days I don’t mention my non-belief in that particular member of the set of all things for which there is no evidence, unless I’m asked. Even then, I’m polite about it, except for those times when the response is a condescending Dr Hibbert–style chuckle, followed up by some tired “Intelligent Design” argument or the like, in which case the ridicule will be as merciless as the situation demands.
Nicely put, John.
the most tiresome of the anti-religionists are the ones who rabbit on about Christians having imaginary friends or talking to their sky pilot.
it’s hard to comprehend how little Peter Fitzsimmons must know of history or philosophy to think that clever.
i also notice that it is only ever directed at one religion.
Well, unless evidence comes to light otherwise they are bloody imaginary friends. They have been imagined for the purposes of exploiting others. “Spiritual Pilot” is probably better since there does not seem to be evidence that the creator exists in the same dimension of our concept of the sky. Pilot, in the sense of a guide. If the religious don’t like it they may have recourse in 18C.
And that applies to most religions.
Hey, thanks for reminding me. Haven’t heard this for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOs3uIEyHaY
You’re not getting mixed up with Pontius Pilot?
Simpler question. What does Fitz know anything about?
I’ve never been a fan but at a oersonal level, he is quite likeable. All the same, HK Jack is right, the imaginary friend insult is only directed at Christians and is part of the sneering derision we are talking about. It really shouldn’t be difficult to have a little respect for other people’s beliefs.
His history of the Gallipoli campaign was excellent, as was his bio of boxer Les Darcy and description of the Villiers-Brettoneaux campaign. I haven’t read anything else he’s written, but he’s an accurate and assiduous researcher.
But he knows SFA about rugby and drinks NZ wine. You really can’t trust a bloke like that.
Doubt is a strong part of faith, and probably a strong part of non faith.
Anywho, I don’t like preachers whatever form they take – Christians, atheist, Marxist or liberals. Some good examples of how in another form prohibition doesn’t work.
Happy Easter to everyone.
I’m in Jack’s agnostic camp and inclined to regard the whole thing as a commercial regatta these days, but it’s nice to see kids running around having fun looking for Easter eggs.
Goodness me, the weekend paper this morning tells us that the number of children aged 2-6 yrs taking attention deficit disorder medicines has risen by 41% over the past 2 years. What on earth are we doing? Drugging them so we don’t have to manage young normal behaviour?
Over-diagnosing
My wife is heading off to Vietnam with her golf buddies today, stuff Easter traditions.
Oh there was one more gesture, she bought me some chocolate hot cross buns yesterday. Now that has to be a mortal sin, well sacrilegious at least.
I’m feeling very comfortable as a long failed Catholic boy.
Chocolate hot cross buns! That’s a mortal sin, surely?
Nice article JTI. I’m not sure if it is the Information Age or not but it appears the many modern day causes turn a portion of their adherents to near messianic extremes. Climate change, both camps, gay marriage, both camps (no pun intended), anti-Islam and the list goes on. I suspect the ease which false news can be propogated helps the extremist in any argument greatly. So where does it end? Do we end up as a society of extremes? A Cold War of ideas as it were.
Happy Easter Terrorists! The United States has dropped a massive GBU-43 bomb – the largest non-nuclear bomb it has ever used in combat – in eastern Afghanistan on Thursday against a series of caves used by ISIS militants, Mr Insider. POTUS Trump said he would take the fight to ISIS and Co and by damn he is! Go hard Donald!
http://tinyurl.com/m4rqjve
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A pox on all superstition. It’s been a pox on humanity since the first witch doctors. Could we have ever expected better from cunning modified monkeys? Probably not.
Whatever spin we put on history the Nazis , certainly indoctrinated and formed as Christian children, signed a Concordat with the Church, and it suited the Church to sign with Nazis.
There is no doubt that the overwhelming majority of those who carried out the atrocities were Good German (and divers others) Christians certain or clinging to the belief that they would on completing appropriate arrangements with the priests be admitted to everlasting life whatever their actions in service to the state.
That’s the thing with religion. The abrogation of personal responsibility, the dangerous mindless trust in authority imbued in innocent children.
Love him or hate him.
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/richard_dawkins.html
“A pox on all superstition. It’s been a pox on humanity since the first witch doctors. That’s the thing with religion. The abrogation of personal responsibility”
I say JB, some may even include the AGW worshippers. They proclaim a similar doctrinal devotion to a belief that an invisible gas (or perhaps it’s a heavenly spirit?) will bring about an earthly catastrophe (the end times even) should the multitude of non-believers not pay the appropriate tithe and homage.
The de nos jours “modified monkeys” are indeed cunning me old mate.
Oh gawd! Nobody is worshipping AGW Carl. Trying to point out the very real dangers of AGW is not “worshipping.”
Are you with this so far? Now C02 is invisible but it can be demonstrated to exist. Stay in a room filled with it and you will die. OK? It’s real. If you can demonstrate the existence of the holy spirit I shall be pleased to hear of it. I may even reconsider my attitude to organised religion.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/01/pope-francis-calls-on-christians-to-embrace-green-agenda
Now, I would say aiding and abetting climate destroyers is a serious transgression against the creator so I suggest you better get your scrawny arse down to the confessional quick smart. Me old mate.
Yes JB, you do have a point. Perhaps “AGW worshipper” may not have struck the necessary crusading chord.
Perhaps “AGW preacher” would be a more appropriate nomenclature. Yes, definitely “preacher”. The prophets of doom, the clergymen and women of climate change.
Surely there is none among us who would not agree that their evangelical-like crusade is at least on a par with the zealotry and uncompromising fanaticism of the early gospellers? The anthropogenic impact, influence, dogmatism and trickery of these latter day crusaders know no bounds.
I have to confess to suppressing a giggle when I saw your “room full of CO2” analogy JB.
What in heaven’s name were you thinking me old mate?
Rubbish. Evangelicals are delusional fruitcakes pushing a load of superstitious nonsense in their own interests.
AGW crusaders are rational sentients concerned about the destruction of a viable environment for human survival.
What was I thinking? I was thinking , with some concern, you might be silly enough to go into a room full of C02 gas to try to prove a point. Such is the survival quotient of wussy AGW deniers. Old Mate.
Now, lets have it straight. Do you think the Pope who is in direct contact with your ratbag deity is an idiot?
Don’t forget the Marxists. Marxism has all the characteristics of a cult.
Diversionary tactic?
Speaking of monkeys, there is a cartoon doing the the rounds of a man going to heaven, and meeting God who looks like a chimpanzee. The man is clearly puzzled until God tells him; Yes I created you in my image, but you’ve evolved.
I think it is meant to stick it up the fundamentalists…
Now we’re onto a plausible meme. A chimpanzee created mankind? It’s starting to make sense.
People are hard-wired for tribalism. A million years of evolving in small groups – families and tribes – made it an imperative for survival that people could quickly identify those with whom they shared common interests and those they didn’t. The most obvious immediate identifiers are skin colour, hair and clothing styles and colours and body adornments; things that can be seen at a distance. As we get physically closer to other people, language, dialects and accents provide a finer filter for common identification. After that, the language of vocations and trades, politics, philosophy and religion. We’re constantly scanning for others with common interests and seeking bonds with them to the exclusion of others.
When totalitarian regimes seek to remove or destroy religions, it’s really about getting rid of one type of tribal affiliation and replacing it with another. We see similar ideological purges occur along the lines of gender, race, sexual-preference, sports team affiliation and professional competition.
It’s really just about us being slightly evolved hominids with most of the same hardware and software as the average ape.
That’s certainly part of the story. But another big and competing driver of human behaviour is curiosity, an interest in and attraction to the unknown. It’s what drives progress. The balance between same-seeking (fear of difference) and other-seeking (welcoming of difference) behaviour seems to vary from person to person, and that variation itself is possibly a key to continued survival of the species as circumstances change. IMO, a high level of curiosity is one of the hallmarks of civilisation.
But IMO discussions like these about what happens at a genetic, neurological or cultural level have little bearing on how people _ought_ to behave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem
Erm . . . right then.